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84f33dea62
well, expect our two seperate directories for cron and crontab to go away shortly. Submitted by: jkh
476 lines
20 KiB
Plaintext
476 lines
20 KiB
Plaintext
[ this is really old mail that came to me in response to my 1986 posting
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to usenet asking for feature suggestions before releasing the first
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version of cron. it is presented here for its entertainment value.
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--vix ]
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$Id: MAIL,v 1.1 1993/12/28 08:30:36 vixie Exp $
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From ptsfa!lll-crg!ames!acornrc!bob Wed Dec 31 10:07:08 1986
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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 86 08:59:31 pst
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From: lll-crg!ames!acornrc!bob (Bob Weissman)
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To: ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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Sure, here's a suggestion: I'd like to be able to run a program, say,
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every two hours. Current cron requires me to write
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0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22 in the hours field. How about a notation
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to handle this more elegantly?
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<< Okay, I've allowed 0-22/2 as a means of handling this.
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The time specification for my cron is as follows:
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specification = range {"," range}
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range = (start "-" finish ["/" step]) | single-unit
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This allows "1,3,5-7", which the current cron doesn't (it won't
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do a range inside a list), and handles your specific need. >>
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From drw@mit-eddie Wed Dec 31 18:25:27 1986
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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 86 14:28:19 est
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From: drw@mit-eddie (Dale Worley)
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To: mit-eddie!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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We have a lot of lines in our crontab of the form
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00 12 * * * su user < /usr/users/user/script.file
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This barfs (silently!) on our system (Dec Ultrix 1.2 == 4.2bsd) if
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user's shell is csh. This, I am told, is because csh requires that
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the environment be set up in certain ways, which cron doesn't do.
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(Actually, I believe, it is because /etc/rc, which runs cron, doesn't
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set up the environment enough for csh to run, and cron just inherits
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the situation.) Anyway, the point is that if you find out what csh
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really needs in its environment, you might want to set up cron to
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provide some reasonable defaults (if it isn't supplied by cron's
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parent). Also, could you tell me what csh needs, if you find out, so
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we can hack our /etc/rc?
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<< well, the environment IS a problem. processes that cron forks
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will inherit the environment of the person who ran the cron
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daemon... I plan to edit out such useless things as TERMCAP,
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TERM, and the like; supply correct values for HOME, USER, CWD,
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and whatever else comes to mind. I'll make sure csh works... >>
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From ptsfa!ames!seismo!dgis!generous Thu Jan 1 07:33:17 1987
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Date: Thu Jan 1 10:29:20 1987
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From: ames!seismo!dgis!generous (Curtis Generous)
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To: nike!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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Paul:
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One of the limitations of the present versions of cron is the lack
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of the capability of specifying a way to execute a command every
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n units of time.
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Here is a good example:
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# Present method to start up uucico
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02,12,22,32,42,52 * * * * exec /usr/lib/uucp/uucico -r1
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# New method ?? (the ':' here is just one possibility for syntax)
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02:10 * * * * exec /usr/lib/uucp/uucico -r1
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This method would prove very helpful for those programs that get started
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every few minutes, making the entry long and not easily readable. The first
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number would specify the base time, and the second number the repetition
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interval.
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<< Good idea, but bob@acornrc beat you to it. I used '/' instead of
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':'. This is my personal preference, and seems intuitive when you
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think of the divide operator in C... Does anyone have a preference? >>
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From ptsfa!lll-lcc!seismo!decuac!c3pe!c3engr!charles Thu Jan 1 17:04:24 1987
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From: lll-lcc!seismo!c3pe!c3engr!charles (Charles Green)
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To: c3pe!decuac!dolqci!vrdxhq!seismo!lll-lcc!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Date: Thu Jan 1 19:22:47 1987
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Status: RO
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Well, this isn't a compatible extension, but I have in times past wondered
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about a facility to let you start a process at intervals of, say, 17 minutes,
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instead of particular minutes out of each hour.
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<< This was a popular request! >>
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From seismo!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!norvax!mann Sun Jan 4 13:04:01 1987
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 87 09:23:53 cst
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From: lll-lcc!seismo!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!norvax!mann (Tom Mann)
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To: ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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I'm not sure if it is in cron (either SysV or BSD ... if it is, I haven't
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figured it out ) but a comment feature would SURE BE NICE!.
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There are times when I want to comment out an entry
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for a period of time; it might also make it a lot more legible.
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<< My cron allows blank lines and standard #-type comments. I know
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that one BSD4.2 cron I've used had it. I don't know about SysV. >>
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From ptsfa!hoptoad!hugh Mon Jan 5 10:26:46 1987
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 87 01:22:17 PST
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From: hoptoad!hugh (Hugh Daniel)
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To: ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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Hi, I do have a BIG one that I would like. I want to log ALL output
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from command lines into a file for each line. Thus I might have a chance
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of finding out why my crontab entry did not work.
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This would seem to work best if done by cron, as it is now I have a google
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of shell scripts laying about just to put the error output where I can see
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it.
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<< My cron (and the SysV cron) will send mail to the owner of the
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particular crontab file if a command generates any output on stdout
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or stderr. This can be irritating, but if you write a script such
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that any output means a problem occurred, you can avoid most logfile
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needs, and not generate mail except in unforeseen circumstances. >>
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From ptsfa!dual!ucbvax!ihnp4!anvil!es!Robert_Toxen Mon Jan 5 13:08:46 1987
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From: dual!ucbvax!ihnp4!anvil!es!Robert_Toxen
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 87 14:25:29 EST
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To: anvil!ihnp4!ucbvax!dual!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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Here are some suggestions:
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1. Run it through the C preprocessor via "/lib/<whatever>".
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<< hmmm. this seems of limited utility, and if you really wanted
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to do it that way, you could do it yourself (since users can
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write to their own crontab files). I'll add '-' (read stdin)
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to the crontab installer program to facilitate this. >>
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2. Allow specifying every Nth day of week, i.e., every second Wednesday.
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I did this to calendar by separating the day of week (Wed=4, which one
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to start on and N with slashes). I took modulo the day of year as a
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starting point so that someone with a desk calendar documenting such
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things can easily determine the offset (second number). I did this
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while at SGI; alas I don't have a copy of the code.
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<< I can see how this could be useful, but I'm not sure how I'd
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implement it. Cron currently doesn't keep track of the last time
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a given command was run; whether the current Wednesday is the first
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or second since the command was last run would be pretty hard to
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figure out. I'd have to keep a database of commands and their
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execution around, and purge it when the crontab was overwritten.
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This is too much work for me, but if someone adds it, let me know. >>
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From ptsfa!ames!seismo!cbmvax!devon!paul Tue Jan 6 05:50:17 1987
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From: ames!seismo!cbmvax!devon!paul
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To: cbmvax!seismo!nike!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Date: Mon Jan 5 09:29:57 1987
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Status: RO
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One problem that has always plagued me with cron is the assumed ORing.
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I'd like to see some type of ANDing implemented. I guess I can best
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describe this by example. Say I have the following line in my crontab
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file:
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* * 4-31 * 1-6 /usr/bin/command
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What this does is run 'command' on the 4th thru 31st days of the
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month, AND on Monday thru Saturday; which probably means running it
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every day of the month (unless Sunday falls on days 1-3). This
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happens because cron runs the command if the day-of-month OR the
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day-of-week is true.
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What I'd like to happen with the above line is to run the command ONLY
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on Monday thru Saturday any time after the 3rd of the month, e.g. if
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the day-of-month AND the day-of-week are true.
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My proposal to you is to implement some special chars for the first
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five fields. Examples:
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* * !1-3 * 1-6 /usr/bin/command
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(run command Mon-Sat, but NOT [!] on the first 3 days of the month)
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* * &4-31 * &1-6 /usr/bin/command
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(run command if day-of-month AND day-of-week are true)
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Get the picture? This would be compatable with existing versions of
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cron (which wouldn't currently be using any special characters, so
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that old crontabs would be handled correctly).
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<< This message made me aware of the actual boolean expression involved
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in a crontab entry. I'd assumed that it was
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(minute && hour && DoM && month && DoW)
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But it's really
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(minute && hour && month && (DoM || DoW))
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I can see some value in changing this, but with a fixed order of
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fields, operators get to be kindof unary, which && and || really
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aren't. If someone has an idea on a syntax that allows useful
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variations to the standard (&& && && (||)) default, please suggest. >>
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From bobkat!pedz Tue Jan 6 20:02:10 1987
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From: pedz@bobkat.UUCP (Pedz Thing)
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Date: 2 Jan 87 17:34:44 GMT
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Status: RO
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Log files! It would be nice to be able to specify a log for cron
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itself and also a log for each program's stdout and stderr to go to.
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The latter can of course be done with > and 2> but it would be nice if
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there could be a single line with some sort of pattern like
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`> /usr/spool/log/%' and the command would be substituted for the %.
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Another thing which would be nice is to be able to specify which shell
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to call to give the command to.
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<< Log files are done with mail. The '%' idea could be useful if
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a different character were used (% is special to cron, see man
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page); a different directory would have to be chosen, since each
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user has their own crontab file; and something intelligent would
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have to be done in the file naming, since the first word of the
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command might be ambiguous (with other commands). In short, it's
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too much work. Sorry. >>
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From guy%gorodish@sun Tue Jan 6 20:03:13 1987
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From: guy%gorodish@sun (Guy Harris)
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Message-ID: <10944@sun.uucp>
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Date: 5 Jan 87 12:09:09 GMT
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References: <429@vixie.UUCP> <359@bobkat.UUCP>
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Sender: news@sun.uucp
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Status: RO
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> Another thing which would be nice is to be able to specify which shell
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> to call to give the command to.
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Well, the obvious choice would be the user's shell, but this wouldn't work
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for accounts like "uucico".
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<< I use the owning user's shell, and to handle "uucico" I check a
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list of "acceptable shells" (currently compiled in, does anybody
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mind?), substituting a default (compiled in) shell if the user's
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shell isn't on the list.
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BTW, "compiled in" means that it's in a .h file, easily changed
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during installation, but requiring recompilation to modify. You
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don't have to go digging through the code to find it... >>
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From qantel!hplabs!ucbvax!mwm@violet.berkeley.edu Tue Jan 6 21:24:48 1987
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To: hplabs!qantel!vixie!paul (Paul Vixie Esq)
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Date: 04 Jan 87 00:42:35 PST (Sun)
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From: Mike Meyer <mwm@violet.berkeley.edu>
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Status: RO
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<<[Discussion of RMS/FSF, and mwm's GNU Cron deleted]>>
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Oh, yeah - here are the extensions on my cron:
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1) Sunday is both day 0 and day 7, so it complies with both SysV and
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BSD cron.
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<< Good idea. I did it too, thanks for informing me. >>
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2) At is integrated into the cron. Instead of atrun to scan the
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/usr/spool/at directory, at files are put into the /usr/lib/cron
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directory along with users cron files, and cron fabricates a line from
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a crontab file to run them. This is considered a major win by all who
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use it.
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<< I don't use 'at', and my cron doesn't do anything with it. To run
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'at', I use 'atrun' the same way the current BSD cron does. My
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crontab files are in /usr/spool/cron/crontabs, in the SysV
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tradition -- not in /usr/lib/cron. This is a configuration
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parameter, of course. >>
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There are two known restrictions:
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1) I don't support any of the SysV security hooks. I don't have a use
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for them, and RMS didn't like the idea at all :-).
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<< This means cron.allow and cron.deny. I plan to support them, as
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they've been quite helpful at various HPUX sites I've administered. >>
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2) Cron expects to be able to create files with names longer than 14
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characters, which makes it hard to run on SysV. At least one person
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was working on a port, but I don't know how it's going. That might
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make for a good reason for releasing yours, right there.
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<< If someone has SysV (with the 14-character limit), they probably
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won't want my cron, since it doesn't add much to the standard
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version (which they may have support for). My cron is not currently
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portable to non-BSD systems, since it relies on interval timers (I
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needed to sleep for intervals more granular than seconds alone would
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allow). The port would be trivial, and I will do it if a lot of
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people ask for it... >>
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Oh, yeah - I'm going to see about getting this cron integrated into
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the next 4BSD release.
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<< How does one go about this? I have a few nifty gadgets I'd like
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to contribute, this cron being one of them... >>
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<<[more FSF/GNU discussion deleted]>>
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From qantel!hplabs!ames!ut-sally!ut-ngp!melpad!bigtex!james Tue Jan 6 21:24:57 1987
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Posted-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 87 19:26:16 est
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 87 19:26:16 est
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From: hplabs!ames!ut-sally!ut-ngp!bigtex!james
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To: vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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Yes!!! There are several critical failures in System V cron...
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1. Pass all variables in cron's environment into the environment of things
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cron starts up, or at least into the crontab entries started up (at jobs
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will inherit the environment of the user). If nothing else it is critically
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important that the TZ variable be passed on. PATH should be passed on too.
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Basically, passing environment values allows one to design a standard
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environment with TZ and PATH and have that run by everything. If anyone
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tells you this is no big deal, consider what happens when uucico is
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started by cron in CA to make a long distance phone link... Unless the
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administrator is really on his/her toes, calls scheduled at 5pm will really
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go at two in the afternoon, needlessly incurring huge phone bills, all
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because System V refuses to pass the TZ from its environment down. There
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are work arounds, but only putting it in cron will really work. This is
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not a security hole.
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<< delete TERM and TERMCAP; modify HOME, USER, and CWD; pass TZ and
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PATH through undisturbed. any other requests out there?
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BSD doesn't have this problem -- TZ is passed right on through if
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you define it in the shell before starting my cron daemon. However,
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the BSD I'm running this on doesn't need TZ to be defined anyway...
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The default in the kernel has been just fine so far... But just the
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same, if/when I port to SysV (I guess I really should), I'll make
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sure this works right.
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I guess I've been spoiled. HPUX is SysV-based, and I never had a
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problem with cron and TZ when I used it. >>
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2. A way to avoid logging stuff in /usr/lib/cron/log. I have a cron entry
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run uudemon.hr every 10 minutes. This is 144 times/day. Each run generates
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three lines of text, for a total of 432 lines of text I don't want to see.
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Obviously this should be optional, but it would be nice if there were a
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way to flag an entry so that it wasn't logged at all unless there was an
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error.
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<< I don't know nothin' 'bout no /usr/lib/cron/log. What is this file?
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I don't see any reason to create log entries, given the mail-the-
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output behaviour. Opinions, anyone? >>
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I will come up with other ideas no doubt, but I can always implement them
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myself.
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<< That's what I like about PD software. Please send me the diffs! >>
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The other problem you have is making sure you can run standard
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crontabs. I would suggest something like this: if the command part of the
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entry starts with an unescaped -, then flags and options follow immediately
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thereafter. As in:
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2,12,22,32,42,52 * * * * -q /usr/lib/uucp/uudemon.hr
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This could mean do not log the uudemon.hr run unless there is a problem of
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some kind. This is probably safe as not many filenames start with "-", and
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those that do are already a problem for people.
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<< Since I don't plan on supporting /usr/lib/cron/log in ANY form unless
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many people request it, I won't be needing -q as you've defined it.
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I could use something like this to avoid sending mail on errors, for
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the occasional script that you don't want to bullet-proof.
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The compatibility issue is CRITICAL. The 4.3BSD crontab format is
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a crime against the whole philosophy of Unix(TM), in my opinion. >>
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One other minor thing to consider is the ulimit: can different users get
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different ulimits for their crontab entries?
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<< Boy I'm ignorant today. What's a ulimit, and what should I do with
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it in a crontab? Suggestions, enlightenment, etc ?? >>
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From qantel!lll-crg!ames!uw-beaver!uw-nsr!john Tue Jan 6 23:32:44 1987
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 87 10:53:05 pst
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From: lll-crg!ames!uw-beaver!uw-nsr!john (John Sambrook 5-7433)
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To: vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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How about not hardwiring the default environment that cron builds for its
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children in the cron program itself? Our cron does this and it's the pits
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because we are TZ=PST8PDT not TZ=EST5EDT !
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<< yeachk. I assure you, I will not hardwire the TZ! >>
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From ptsfa!well!dv Fri Jan 9 04:01:50 1987
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 87 23:50:40 pst
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From: well!dv (David W. Vezie)
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To: ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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6, have a special notation called 'H' which would expand to weekends
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and holidays (you'd have to keep a database somewhere of real
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holidays), and also 'W' for workdays (neither weekend or holiday).
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<< Too much work. There should be a standard way to define and
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detect holidays under Unix(TM); if there were, I'd use it. As
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it is, I'll leave this for someone else to add.
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I can see the usefulness; it just doesn't quite seem worth it. >>
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From qantel!gatech!akgua!blnt1!jat Wed Jan 14 20:00:40 1987
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 87 16:39:38 EST
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From: gatech!akgua!blnt1!jat
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Status: RO
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1) Add some way to tell cron to reread the files, say kill -1 <pid>
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<< whenever the 'crontab' program is run and updates a crontab file,
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a file /usr/spool/cron/POKECRON is created; next time the cron
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daemon wakes up, it sees it, and re-reads the crontab files.
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I thought of handling the signal; even implemented it. Then this
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clever idea hit me and I ripped it all out and added a single
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IF-statement to handle the POKECRON file. >>
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2) Have some kind of retry time so that if a command fails, cron will try to
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execute it again after a certain period. This is useful if you have some
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type of cleanup program that can run at the scheduled time for some reason
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(such as locked device, unmounted filesystem, etc).
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<< Hmmm, sounds useful. I could do this by submitting an 'at' job...
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I'll think about it. >>
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From ptsfa!dual!ucbvax!ihnp4!mtuxo!ender Sat Jan 3 16:54:00 1987
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From: dual!ucbvax!ihnp4!mtuxo!ender
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 87 14:05:13 PST
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To: ucbvax!dual!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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It would be nice if nonprivileged users can setup personal crontab files
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(~/.cronrc, say) and be able to run personal jobs at regular intervals.
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<< this is done, but in the SysV style: the 'crontab' program installs
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a new crontab file for the executing user (can be overridden by root
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for setup of uucp and news). the advantage of this is that (1) when
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a crontab is changed, the daemon can be informed automatically; and
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(2) the file can be syntax-checked before installation. >>
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From ptsfa!ames!seismo!ihnp4!lcc!richard Fri Jan 16 04:47:33 1987
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 87 07:44:57 EST
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To: nike!ptsfa!vixie!paul
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Status: RO
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The System V cron is nice, but it has a few annoying features. One is that
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its mail files will say that the previous message is the output of "one of your
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cron commands." I wish it would say WHICH cron commmand.
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<< Done. Also which shell, which user (useful when the mail gets
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forwarded), which home directory, and other useful crud. >>
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Another problem is with timezones. It is necessary to specify TZ=PST8PDT (or
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whatever) when you invoke cron (from inittab, or /etc/rc) and it is also
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necessary to add TZ=PST8PDT to each crontab line which might need it. Cron
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should automatically export its idea of the "TZ" to each invoked command, and
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it should be possible to put a line in the crontab file which overrides that
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for every command in the file (e.g., most users are on EST, so cron is run
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with TZ=EST5EDT; but one user is usually on PST and wants all of his cron
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commands to run with TZ=PST8PDT). This might be extended to allow any
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environment variable to be specified once for the whole crontab file (e.g.,
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PATH).
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<< Well, since I run the user's shell, you could put this into .cshrc.
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generic environment-variable setting could be useful, though. Since
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I have to modify the environment anyway, I'll consider this. >>
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A log file might be a nice idea, but the System V cron log is too verbose.
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I seem to remember that cron keeps it open, too; so you can't even have
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something go and periodically clean it out.
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<< I don't do /usr/lib/cron/log. I wasn't aware of this file until I
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got all these suggestions. Do people want this file? Tell me! >>
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